http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/na.cgi?nationalupdates/061101postal
well, it seems that my grandfather has drawn a line in the sand for all of us Christians. I knew we were going to have to face this debate some time or another. my grandfather wishes it to be now. some churches will be silent on the matter, until they come to take our scripture away as the ultimate hate mail. we cannot forget what it says . . . . and we cannot break our covenant to it. but, more importantly, we cannot break our covenant to love . . . .
Monday, November 06, 2006
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Well, rest assured that Grandpa didn't draw a line that many Christians these days will stand behind. Whether one agrees with his take on things or not, I find it refreshing to see someone stand up for his convictions without resorting to violence. The hypocracy of the Postal workers and press is always interesting to see - its not so long ago that those same workers would be cheering Grandpa along. Alas, we live in shallow, fickle times. I wonder how long before Grandpa starts getting death threats in the name of tolerance and love.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if those postal workers would have been cheering on such comments..."It was not long ago"---when exactly would people cheer on literature that spoke of things like those article did? People with deep rooted "Christian" values? Living in the 50's...even then I am not sure. I often wonder if the tales we hear of such times are a bit of a myth...But maybe not, maybe everyone was a Christian, everyone straight and cheering on a judgmental spirit that speaks of the sin of the world.
ReplyDeleteI understand why your grandpa is writing and bless him and skeptic but i am just weary of it-- Christians viewed the way they are..pushing our views on others..."Gay is wrong!" (The funny thing is that I agree that it is wrong) but that does not mean I am naive enough to think that the world should think it so! God said we are light to darkness...so why do we blame the darkness for acting like it does? No one enters a dark room and blames the darkness, they ask "Where is the light?"
Paul tells us not to judge those outside the church...that that is God's role...people inside the church...that is our role (2 Cor. 5) I wonder weather we will ever learn that people cannot see the love of Jesus through the blaze of the inferno we have half-assigned them to before they even begin their journey.
Mark C.
Personally, I find just about everything to do with christianity wearying. My point was that he was not afraid to voice his convictions, and that he did it without violence (I did not even state that I agree with his position). And I hardly think that sending a circulation letter to those that have requested it constitutes "pushing our views on others." If grandpa was standing on the street corner shouting "Gay is wrong" I would agree with you, but that was not the case. In fact, it was the postal workers who were pushing their views on others, not grandpa. That gay is great is not a view that all share, yet those fine postal workers seem to have no problem judging those that don't share it. Besides, I don't think that the early church was afraid to spread their opinions because they were afraid of public opinion.
ReplyDeleteAs to cheering, that was hyperbole, but one does not have to reach that far back in time to find a day when homosexuality was less than popular - and that not simply a christian opinion. As to christians and judgmental spirits, I guess they do go hand in hand - although it is possible that they felt they were speaking gods words after him. It would probably be kinda hard to preach salvation without mentioning what people need salvation from.
I really liked your conclusion, but I wonder how one brings the light? The new testament has a few examples of christians bringing light, but then, they did it by denouncing sin, idolatry, and the likes publicly, from the street corner. Then again, so did the prophets of old testament times. The preached at/to anyone and everyone that would listen, and didn't reserve their sin talk for closed door church meetings. It's funny, sometimes when your in the dark too long, and suddenly a light is switched on, it really hurts the eyes - it's not pleasant at all.
"If Christians and the church are to become effective in reaching modern pagans, we will need to go to them. In other words, we need to change the starting point of evangelism. We need to start where they are instead of where we are.
ReplyDeleteAnd when modern pagans do become Christians, they may not be able to make the sociological jump to the traditional churches and organizations now available. They will need new forms of expressions of the church which are not now imagined—churches for the previously unchurched." (Leif Anderson)
Mark C.
wow, I really think these thoughts are well said. skeptic, that is totally a call perspective. and yes, there is great hypocrisy among the posties, because they do impose their believe system on others, deciding what people can and can't receieve in the mail. the problem is, they view their particular stance as an established value of our society as a whole, that every person must bow their individual values to, and if that isn't facism, I don't know what is. Hitler loves that sort of thinking, becasue Hitler knows he can take control of the masses' world view through it.
ReplyDeleteskeptic, you mentioned the prophets and the apostles, and their calling down sinful behaviour. a read of any of their material confirms this, but it also reveals a real love and concern for those people they are denouncing, a genuine warning and invitation to these people to come out of the darkness and get help. I don't see that sort of attitude in many Christians' denouncing of homosexuals. If you can't communicate the love of God to someone, you have no right to tell them where they are wrong. we're so afraid of losing the truth of scripture sometimes we think we will dilute truth with the message of God's love. why can't the so-called "prophets" of our day understand the falacies in this?
ReplyDeleteWell said. The passion driving the message must be, and can only be properly received, in love. But I don't think that Grandpa's message was given without love and compassion as its main focus. As he said, the postal workers should have read the whole message.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, was the apostle Paul really that stressed by the motive over the message "whether out of envy...etc...so long as the gospel is preached..." well, rough paraphrase, but you get the idea.
yeah, that is a good point, about Paul, but we must remember that he is talking about those who preach the message but do not believe it. i put that in a different catagory than my grandpa. he believes. and that is where the pluralistic people have to keep their mouths shut - they believe that people always have a right to say what we sincerely feel is true - or do we no longer have freedom of speach in Canada? The real issue here is that his words are now classified as "hate." that is what I disagree with. he doesn't hate them. he just disagrees. they don't want to argue on the basis of just that - an argument - they want to make it about "hate." unfortunately, his article swings open the doors for accusations of hatred. if we want to be able to disagree with the gay lifestyle, we need to be a little more intelligent in our choice of wording. we don't hate them, do we?
ReplyDelete